PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 13)

News from the Pro Evolution / Winning Eleven gaming world, discussions from the posts on WinningElevenBlog.com and general PES & WE discussions

Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 13)

Postby danielrh » Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:56 pm

Mutuality-WSDEs wrote:Recall our man in the driving seat:


@Adam_Bhatti
Jan 29
Adam Bhatti Retweeted Winning Eleven Blog
Smashed it cut through the BS and get some common ground. Build together with some intelligent discussion.

Great post @placid_casual75 Adam Bhatti added,
Winning Eleven Blog
@WENBlog
[New] Introducing: The PES Casual http://bit.ly/2rUPUIb  #WENB
20 replies 5 retweets 22 likes
Reply 20 Retweet 5 Like 22


Yep I put a like on that tweet when it came out, because straight talking is good sometimes and there was alot of bashing towards so called casual players - trouble is people only take out bits that suit themselves or their own agendas Adam's second sentence is even more important "Build together with some intelligent discussion" and that's all you need to do folks
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https://pesleague.konami.net/2018/eu/en/

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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 13)

Postby The PES Casual » Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:02 pm

Forced_Reps wrote:I'm worn out with arguing with you all the time Alan,. so lets just agree to keep it civilised, draw a line and move on shall we?
really though mate, theres no need to be aggressive all the time, I',m sure you're not that much of a c*nt in real life so no need to be over a PC screen, its a game after all, as i said, I'm done playing PES 18 now, after over 600 matches offline, a few dozen online and hrs upon hrs of friendly matches, and serious time spent in editing mode, PES 18 has given me 5 months worth of daily play, value for money, is a superb game, but I just feel has many many basic issues that prevents it being the best PES game ever.

PES18 is a superb football video game, PES18 is NOT even a decent true-PES game.

I'm not boycotting the series, as if PES19 delivers and addresses some key areas which we have discussed, then I will buy it, of course I will, if it doesn't, I wont, simple as that, but either way, my time with PES18 has come to an end.

Will still post here as have a vested interest in the game, and on that note, I'm off to conclude negotiations with an agent of a player I've targeted who is playing hardball over image rights and signing on fee, to replace a player I had injured in game, and is out for 8 weeks, where the crowd chanted his name as he left the field, in a proper stadium, with commentary that actually related to what was happening on screen.


The PES Casual wrote:
Forced_Reps wrote:Whats all this about 'burning' me Alan? for what purpose? being emotive?
Did i not just post about emotive being good, as long as you respect others opinions and views as well as your own?
Seems your agenda also includes wishing to see other people who are passionate about the game be stamped on because their views dont fit yours, sad state of affairs if that is the case.

Take it you wont be stepping back to evaluate how you interact then, shame as I think you could genuinely be another quality voice in the debate and contribute a lot, but as it is, you persist, even up to your last post, on using this expletive-ridden, aggressive, hostile, 'im right so f*ck everyone else' type approach.

I'm embarrassed for you.

And on a sidenote, how the hell do you know that you have played more of the game than Matt, twobob, me, or anyone else? how can you be so sure that you are the authority and that others haven't played as much as you?
I'll tell you what though, If matt had played 5 friendly matches, and you had played 5000 myclub matches, I'd value matt's opinions 100 times more than yours, hows hat take ya? Pal ?


I agreed with your take on being emotive. Read it back.

Oh, come on! You don't get to talk about opinions being stamped on. Watch you do that with Daniel and also pesmunki frequently; watched you round on the new guy peskev too. Again, take a look in the mirror.

It's a guess based on life experience regarding the amount I have played compared to them. I wouldn't play a game I don't like for a prolonged period. Simple. Regards your "5 v. 1000 matches": good grief, whatever. Is that meant to sting?

Regards your other points, it appears you simply haven't read what I have had to say either today or elsewhere... by your own frequent admission, I might add.

But ultimately Dan is right. This is all off topic and the actual topic is one that you and others are done with. I guess things are going to settle naturally then.


I never questioned your playing time. You laid out your playtime after my introductory post. I liked that you did that.

Six months playing time for me now. You are right in that if you got a few good solid months out of your purchase that is good value for money. Many may say it has to hold interest longer, but those whose interest is held longer are those who perhaps don't rack up our playtime numbers until round about the new game cycle. That casual market again, and that isn't a dig. Just the reality that we likely invest more than the vast majority of players, with players racking up total of number of hours that are ridiculously higher than ours likely being those who play FUT/myClub modes.

I personally think that is not all down to an EA or Konami dicking us over and plotting against its users. Some folk, from all age groups, just really like those modes. Me? I play myClub like I like to play ML. Player development and seeking out hidden gems. Playing to my own rules that are easy to put in place and don't compromise my own enjoyment or sense of achievement. My myClub squad has around 20-30 players tops whom I invest in and are what I consider to be my first team squad, out of the squad size that is around 100 in number. No black ball superstars feature regularly, even though I do have them. A Higuain or Marcelo might get a run out, but it is Zaza/Galabinov and Jonny Castro/De Sciglio who are the first picks st CF and LB. Three silver ballers, with Galabinov being a Bronze ball cart-horse of a player. My first choice RB, Fosu-Mensah, is levelled up/developed to a 78 ovr now, and keeps out Alves, Lichsteiner, Danilo from that berth. He plays like a Millenial Thuram, on account of me sticking with him and yes, identifying his strengths and weaknesses, how he feels to control; his very distinct player individuality. A gem of a player for me both offline and online jn the mode. He has tge Defensive full-back style and I swear by that for my full-backs. It is the reason I have collected four players with the Defesive full-back style and I'm currently trying to bid on a scout that will land me a fifth: bronze ball player again by the name of Boilesen from FC Copenhagen. This isn't exactly the approach of a kid, I'm sure you would concede, if vonsidering my tactical and plsyer preferences. Not a go at Matt this, but that is one of a variety of reasons I can't accept the claim of there being no player individuality. It is simply not true and I would hope you and others will appreciate that it is a 20 year+ ISS/PES player talking here; 37 years a football videogames player. I know what player individuality is and know both how to spot it and use it to my advantage wherever possible. I will concede it requires more playing time with a player to fully unearth their individuality but I can see the positives to that as well as the negatives. It isn't just sulerstars of the game subject to player individuality, but it is easier to spot in those llayers for both design and profile reasons. I personally wouldn't be against it needing more from the player to get the best out of the best - for it to be a similar challenge to that which I face with my current way of playing.

Subjective, of course, but given I and I am imagining yourself have been playing this series for over 20 years then a case could be made for it being our favourite game franchise ever. How can it not be considered as such with all that time invested over two decades?

Anyway, a little more substantive and on topic comment from me for you to cindider, given your own words there which were of a similar nature for the most part.

It was good to elaborate on my playing of the actual game there. I appreciate you inspiring to fo thst, Reps. Cheers. Genuinely.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 13)

Postby Mutuality-WSDEs » Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:03 pm

RFC41GE wrote:
Mutuality-WSDEs wrote:a proper online game: Battlefield 1


Just wait till PS4 gets PUBG, battlefield is like a school playground in comparison.

Looking forward to it.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 13)

Postby Mutuality-WSDEs » Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:17 pm

danielrh wrote:
Mutuality-WSDEs wrote:Recall our man in the driving seat:


@Adam_Bhatti
Jan 29
Adam Bhatti Retweeted Winning Eleven Blog
Smashed it cut through the BS and get some common ground. Build together with some intelligent discussion.

Great post @placid_casual75 Adam Bhatti added,
Winning Eleven Blog
@WENBlog
[New] Introducing: The PES Casual http://bit.ly/2rUPUIb  #WENB
20 replies 5 retweets 22 likes
Reply 20 Retweet 5 Like 22


Yep I put a like on that tweet when it came out, because straight talking is good sometimes and there was alot of bashing towards so called casual players - trouble is people only take out bits that suit themselves or their own agendas Adam's second sentence is even more important "Build together with some intelligent discussion" and that's all you need to do folks

You put a like on it because you are obedient and tribal/factional.

Straight talking from Konami and its loyalist defenders, polite talking from anyone else who might not be so keen to praise Konami and make empty promises on their behalf.

It's the kind of double standard which is required to serve Konami's corrupt management of this franchise.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 13)

Postby danielrh » Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:25 pm

Mutuality-WSDEs wrote:
danielrh wrote:
Mutuality-WSDEs wrote:Recall our man in the driving seat:


@Adam_Bhatti
Jan 29
Adam Bhatti Retweeted Winning Eleven Blog
Smashed it cut through the BS and get some common ground. Build together with some intelligent discussion.

Great post @placid_casual75 Adam Bhatti added,
Winning Eleven Blog
@WENBlog
[New] Introducing: The PES Casual http://bit.ly/2rUPUIb  #WENB
20 replies 5 retweets 22 likes
Reply 20 Retweet 5 Like 22


Yep I put a like on that tweet when it came out, because straight talking is good sometimes and there was alot of bashing towards so called casual players - trouble is people only take out bits that suit themselves or their own agendas Adam's second sentence is even more important "Build together with some intelligent discussion" and that's all you need to do folks

You put a like on it because you are obedient and tribal/factional.

Straight talking from Konami and its loyalist defenders, polite talking from anyone else who might not be so keen to praise Konami and make empty promises on their behalf.

It's the kind of double standard which is required to serve Konami's corrupt management of this franchise.


what a clever guy you are - you've figured it all out, well done Sherlock ;)
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 13)

Postby Mutuality-WSDEs » Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:38 pm

Good. Now, let's be real men about this and move on.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 13)

Postby The PES Casual » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:18 pm

Mutuality-WSDEs wrote:Good. Now, let's be real men about this and move on.


Cool. What do you want to talk about then in a bid to move on?

Here is actually a genuine question(s) for you, Mutu:

What is the merit in playing SIM in myClub? Apparently you are highly ranked, so what do you/did you get from that? Is it a good GP resource if your SIM team is strong? Do you/did you play that mode to compliment play with a stronger side, or is it just a good way to play if it is all operating in sync? Finally, if you did play SIM an awful lot, how could they improve it further? Answer that one concentrating on the mode and not who makes it, if possible. Only saying that becausefor steer as do want a bit of insight.

Hopefully you will take these questions as intended: genuine and a desire to tap into anothers ecperience of an aspect of the game.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 13)

Postby G2Bam » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:43 pm

danielrh wrote:
Mutuality-WSDEs wrote:Recall our man in the driving seat:


@Adam_Bhatti
Jan 29
Adam Bhatti Retweeted Winning Eleven Blog
Smashed it cut through the BS and get some common ground. Build together with some intelligent discussion.

Great post @placid_casual75 Adam Bhatti added,
Winning Eleven Blog
@WENBlog
[New] Introducing: The PES Casual http://bit.ly/2rUPUIb  #WENB
20 replies 5 retweets 22 likes
Reply 20 Retweet 5 Like 22


Yep I put a like on that tweet when it came out, because straight talking is good sometimes and there was alot of bashing towards so called casual players - trouble is people only take out bits that suit themselves or their own agendas Adam's second sentence is even more important "Build together with some intelligent discussion" and that's all you need to do folks


Jings the hype train is leaving much earlier this year is it not?

Adam, the blowhard, self-centered, ultimate Konami agenda keeping puppet, is going to listen to serious discussion is he?

Well I, and I am almost sure most people on here have been feeding back 'serious non bullshit feedback and serious discussion' for years and it never worked before, or the game would be great today!

I wouldn't believe neither you nor that Adam guy if you said that grass was green. I would need to check for myself first! Especially when in PES for years the grass was brown or yellow!

No one takes any of this kind of thing seriously anymore as we have been ripped off for the last 10 years by Konami and people like Adam, and the boy cried wolf too many times for most of us.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 13)

Postby danielrh » Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:22 pm

G2Bam wrote:
danielrh wrote:
Mutuality-WSDEs wrote:Recall our man in the driving seat:


@Adam_Bhatti
Jan 29
Adam Bhatti Retweeted Winning Eleven Blog
Smashed it cut through the BS and get some common ground. Build together with some intelligent discussion.

Great post @placid_casual75 Adam Bhatti added,
Winning Eleven Blog
@WENBlog
[New] Introducing: The PES Casual http://bit.ly/2rUPUIb  #WENB
20 replies 5 retweets 22 likes
Reply 20 Retweet 5 Like 22


Yep I put a like on that tweet when it came out, because straight talking is good sometimes and there was alot of bashing towards so called casual players - trouble is people only take out bits that suit themselves or their own agendas Adam's second sentence is even more important "Build together with some intelligent discussion" and that's all you need to do folks


Jings the hype train is leaving much earlier this year is it not?

Adam, the blowhard, self-centered, ultimate Konami agenda keeping puppet, is going to listen to serious discussion is he?

Well I, and I am almost sure most people on here have been feeding back 'serious non bullshit feedback and serious discussion' for years and it never worked before, or the game would be great today!

I wouldn't believe neither you nor that Adam guy if you said that grass was green. I would need to check for myself first! Especially when in PES for years the grass was brown or yellow!

No one takes any of this kind of thing seriously anymore as we have been ripped off for the last 10 years by Konami and people like Adam, and the boy cried wolf too many times for most of us.


Yeah cool, that's what you need to do check for yourself (when the time comes)
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 13)

Postby Mutuality-WSDEs » Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:25 pm

The PES Casual wrote:
Mutuality-WSDEs wrote:Good. Now, let's be real men about this and move on.


Cool. What do you want to talk about then in a bid to move on?

Here is actually a genuine question(s) for you, Mutu:

What is the merit in playing SIM in myClub? Apparently you are highly ranked, so what do you/did you get from that? Is it a good GP resource if your SIM team is strong? Do you/did you play that mode to compliment play with a stronger side, or is it just a good way to play if it is all operating in sync? Finally, if you did play SIM an awful lot, how could they improve it further? Answer that one concentrating on the mode and not who makes it, if possible. Only saying that becausefor steer as do want a bit of insight.

Hopefully you will take these questions as intended: genuine and a desire to tap into anothers ecperience of an aspect of the game.

You spend a lot of time trying persuade people that your questions are genuine rather than just asking the questions.

Makes me wonder where the doubt might actually lie. But then again you obviously created this persona and this latest account with a specific agenda and in some level of coordination with Konami/Adam Bhatti who approved your agenda.

I want to talk about Konami using experienced, skilled players as fodder for less experience and skilled players who are willing to pay more on the game with microtransactions while trying to get the first group to give in and buy microtransactions to perhaps address those wins that are stolen by Konami and given to the second group. Microtransactions might be something to go along with in a realist way but since when has theft been a legitimate mode of game design?

Best thing about SIM is that I don't get screwed over by scripting.

Second best thing is that it was a way to get my players levelled up and my team strength up to the level limit. I had to do this this year because they removed the old limit: 1149 and made the new lowest 1399.

Oh look, another feature removed from the game this year! But don't youse stop telling us that next will be the best yet.

Alx on the other forum has ideas about improving SIM, I don't care, I want a decent online football game not the corrupt shell pushed by Konami.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 13)

Postby Forced_Reps » Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:26 pm

Alan - easily my favourite game franchise ever.
Uncharted is another, but at around 8 hrs a pop for the story mode, across 4 uncharted games (i didn't buy the last one with the 2 female characters in) that's what? 32hrs of play, I've had over 100hrs of play in PES 18 alone. I dont think i could ever question PES's value for money, even when not playing the game I spend hours designing and making kits, see here: http://www.pesfx.co.uk but my point, and that of others all along was more along the lines of Konami making a focused business decision to run with myclub and online play, e-sports, and all things that generate them additional revenue, of course they would, they are a business after all, and the grand result of that is neglect in all other areas of the game.

Backed up by the apparent need to pay bucks for licensing 'legends' and other stuff, running tournaments for online players, hosting big PR events all over the world for e-sports, but failing to recognise absolute basic rules and elements of the sport because they don't fit with 'the online way' and ultimately dishing out a sub par, almost unfinished product to anyone that plays any other mode other than myclub.

This is not arguable, the tangible evidence is within the game itself, for the last 4 years, all focus on MyClub, whilst offline gets stripped right back, just take the pitch adboards for example, we used to have four four two, lucozade, all different brands adboards round the pitches, now..... nothing..... if you hate myclub and don't want anything to do with it, you are still force fed its PR and hype by the adboards only constantly displaying MyClub and PESLeague logo's ... if this isn't a sign of Konami's intentions and priorities what is.

No amount of polite, well worded, constructive feedback is ever taken on board, as the game never changes, offline gets dicked, myclub gets pampered, fact. Until this approach changes, there will always be this big 'them and us' divide within the community.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 13)

Postby RFC41GE » Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:37 pm

It surprises me that people think myclub is in a good place, as someone who's played at least 2000 games online the past few years I can honestly say it is nothing more than a horribly addictive cash cow.

Just one big lottery, people like myself, and I hope there are others would prefer a mode which you play and acquire players because of how well you do, not because you farmed away like a brain dead zombie for months on end.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 13)

Postby The PES Casual » Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:43 pm

Mutuality-WSDEs wrote:
The PES Casual wrote:
Mutuality-WSDEs wrote:Good. Now, let's be real men about this and move on.


Cool. What do you want to talk about then in a bid to move on?

Here is actually a genuine question(s) for you, Mutu:

What is the merit in playing SIM in myClub? Apparently you are highly ranked, so what do you/did you get from that? Is it a good GP resource if your SIM team is strong? Do you/did you play that mode to compliment play with a stronger side, or is it just a good way to play if it is all operating in sync? Finally, if you did play SIM an awful lot, how could they improve it further? Answer that one concentrating on the mode and not who makes it, if possible. Only saying that becausefor steer as do want a bit of insight.

Hopefully you will take these questions as intended: genuine and a desire to tap into anothers ecperience of an aspect of the game.


Makes me wonder where the doubt might actually lie. But then again you obviously created this persona and this latest account with a specific agenda and in some level of coordination with Konami/Adam Bhatti who approved your agenda.



Do you know what jumping the shark is, Alex?

Thanks for the SIM thoughts. Took a wee while digging them out from all the tin-foil they were burried under, but thanks.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 13)

Postby Mutuality-WSDEs » Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:12 pm

Which bit was tin foil?

If your refrain about conspiracy theories is to actually mean anything, surely you should be able to point it out.

Otherwise it can end up just looking like a lazy dodge. A kind of cooler headed way of conceding an argument compared to your much-more-entertaining vitriolic meltdowns.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 13)

Postby G2Bam » Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:13 pm

danielrh wrote:
G2Bam wrote:
Mutuality-WSDEs wrote:Recall our man in the driving seat:


@Adam_Bhatti
Jan 29
Adam Bhatti Retweeted Winning Eleven Blog
Smashed it cut through the BS and get some common ground. Build together with some intelligent discussion.

Great post @placid_casual75 Adam Bhatti added,
Winning Eleven Blog
@WENBlog
[New] Introducing: The PES Casual http://bit.ly/2rUPUIb  #WENB
20 replies 5 retweets 22 likes
Reply 20 Retweet 5 Like 22

Yep I put a like on that tweet when it came out, because straight talking is good sometimes and there was alot of bashing towards so called casual players - trouble is people only take out bits that suit themselves or their own agendas Adam's second sentence is even more important "Build together with some intelligent discussion" and that's all you need to do folks


Jings the hype train is leaving much earlier this year is it not?

Adam, the blowhard, self-centered, ultimate Konami agenda keeping puppet, is going to listen to serious discussion is he?

Well I, and I am almost sure most people on here have been feeding back 'serious non bullshit feedback and serious discussion' for years and it never worked before, or the game would be great today!

I wouldn't believe neither you nor that Adam guy if you said that grass was green. I would need to check for myself first! Especially when in PES for years the grass was brown or yellow!

No one takes any of this kind of thing seriously anymore as we have been ripped off for the last 10 years by Konami and people like Adam, and the boy cried wolf too many times for most of us.


Yeah cool, that's what you need to do check for yourself (when the time comes)


The problem with this approach is I/we need give Konami our money to find out they bullshitted us all again, and by then its too late as they will have our money, and we will have their coffee cup coaster.

Demo is no use as that doesn't mean a thing when the retail version of the game is totally adjusted and a world away from the demo and other beta test versions we all had a go at prior to buying the final game.

Once, or rather 10 times bitten, 11 times shy. No way is PES 19 going to be a purchase on the day for most on here, its been short of a 'must buy' on day one for many years now in fact, that trend will continue no doubt until EA wipes PES out completely and then its Hobson's choice for footy game players.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 13)

Postby The PES Casual » Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:31 pm

Forced_Reps wrote:Alan - easily my favourite game franchise ever.
Uncharted is another, but at around 8 hrs a pop for the story mode, across 4 uncharted games (i didn't buy the last one with the 2 female characters in) that's what? 32hrs of play, I've had over 100hrs of play in PES 18 alone. I dont think i could ever question PES's value for money, even when not playing the game I spend hours designing and making kits, see here: http://www.pesfx.co.uk but my point, and that of others all along was more along the lines of Konami making a focused business decision to run with myclub and online play, e-sports, and all things that generate them additional revenue, of course they would, they are a business after all, and the grand result of that is neglect in all other areas of the game.

Backed up by the apparent need to pay bucks for licensing 'legends' and other stuff, running tournaments for online players, hosting big PR events all over the world for e-sports, but failing to recognise absolute basic rules and elements of the sport because they don't fit with 'the online way' and ultimately dishing out a sub par, almost unfinished product to anyone that plays any other mode other than myclub.

This is not arguable, the tangible evidence is within the game itself, for the last 4 years, all focus on MyClub, whilst offline gets stripped right back, just take the pitch adboards for example, we used to have four four two, lucozade, all different brands adboards round the pitches, now..... nothing..... if you hate myclub and don't want anything to do with it, you are still force fed its PR and hype by the adboards only constantly displaying MyClub and PESLeague logo's ... if this isn't a sign of Konami's intentions and priorities what is.

No amount of polite, well worded, constructive feedback is ever taken on board, as the game never changes, offline gets dicked, myclub gets pampered, fact. Until this approach changes, there will always be this big 'them and us' divide within the community.


A lot to respond to but I'll pick up on one of the points a bit less likely to spark debate, but will come back to those.

Ad-boards. There is stuff in these games that are overly complicated thanks to coporate interests and conflicts, and I ain't talking Konami here, orveven games.

Everything in these games regards brand advertising is gone overly finely by those brands. It isn't some Konami thing, and believe when I say I know about this stuff and do have many an example which can't be shared.

See that UCL license? Awrite, eh? Do you know how much that dictates brand presence in all marketing? Do you know that UCL's sponsors have an interest in what else their brand is sat alongside? That there are actually ridiculously strict rules that need to be adhered to regards even what, on the face of it, seems inconsequential to us Joe Normals?

It's absurd. Utterly absurd. The level of brand protection and resultant conflict is mind boggling. I know, it would be easier to say that lies with Konami, but it really is out of their hands. Completely and utterly in some cases. It impacts what a trailer can show. It can dictate how a trailer is cut and edited.

I actually take your point on the ad-boards, but that isn't a Konami choice or their forgetfulness. It is corporate interests and conflicts. That is fact.

It used to be easier, but now it isn't. You could have a drinks company only too happy to have an ad-board in game but another who sponsors a team or something else say they won't have their brand sat alongside another, or else. Sounds stupid. It is. It is stupid when you consider that happens in real life in the sport all the time, but such control is denied in real life. In videogames though? All sorts can be controlled.

More testing is what Konami can afford regards outright full-licensing of leagues which can circumnavigate these issues, but old uncle capitalism proves a tricky obstacle there. This is why I don't complain about those things. A wee bit knowledge (which isn't public domain granted, so I am not suggesting you never looked it up or anything) and also I see no merit in complaining about capitalism, as much as I have serious, serious issues with it. It is futile me complaining about Konami not having enough money. They could make the greatest football game ever and they still wouldn't have all the money required to get full licensing and be able to work round issues that they simply have no control over whatsoever.

One of the reasons I utterly detest the licensing thing is that is, in my opinion, moaning about there not being enough advertising in the game. Not enough capitalism. I also hate the obsession with the right scoreboards or broadcast authenticity, as that too is complaining that a game doesn't have enough corporate might backing it. I don't want Sky Sports, BT Sports or whatever rammed down my throat when playing a football videogame. I don't care if it would be more authentic, it is just pure advertising. I play to escape a lot of the reality surrounding the sport and hope its authenticity on the pitch is enough. It isn't perfect currently, not by a long shot, but having less can produce more. Imagination, not being slave to corporate interests will make the best football game.

Some of the best films, and even albums, were made with small budgets but big ideas. That is finding its way (back) into gaming now. This is a good thing.

Some people say PES is like an indie game. GOOD. Give me something that is more Joy Division than f**king Queen any day.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 13)

Postby The PES Casual » Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:45 pm

Mutuality-WSDEs wrote:Which bit was tin foil?

If your refrain about conspiracy theories is to actually mean anything, surely you should be able to point it out.

Otherwise it can end up just looking like a lazy dodge. A kind of cooler headed way of conceding an argument compared to your much-more-entertaining vitriolic meltdowns.


Annnnnnnnnnnd there it is. Confirmation bias.

We aren't going to be talking to each other on here any longer, Mutu. By all means, you continue with your half-assed conspiracy theories on here if you wish, but our exchanges on here are over. Completely. I'm not going to engage with someone who will likely take every word I say as proof of their own take. Always. Not gonna do it, mate. Tried it with the on-topic questions and you wandered off into your wee conspiracy bubble.

[AWAITS PREDICTABLE "THE IRONY" POST]
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 13)

Postby miguelfcp » Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:16 pm

Oh, please, let's not go through the licensing route. There's nothing stopping you from creating a fantasy adboard, a fantasy scoreboard, a fantasy stadium, fantasy brands, fantasy everything basically, compensating for the licenses you don't own. There's lack of immagination and vision in order to do that, yes. I don't need a SkySports scoreboard on the game if Konami TV is broadcasting it, but then you'd have to put on the effort to make the game look as an actual broadcast, and that is so much work.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 13)

Postby Mutuality-WSDEs » Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:32 pm

The PES Casual wrote:
Mutuality-WSDEs wrote:Which bit was tin foil?

If your refrain about conspiracy theories is to actually mean anything, surely you should be able to point it out.

Otherwise it can end up just looking like a lazy dodge. A kind of cooler headed way of conceding an argument compared to your much-more-entertaining vitriolic meltdowns.


Annnnnnnnnnnd there it is. Confirmation bias.

We aren't going to be talking to each other on here any longer, Mutu. By all means, you continue with your half-assed conspiracy theories on here if you wish, but our exchanges on here are over. Completely. I'm not going to engage with someone who will likely take every word I say as proof of their own take. Always. Not gonna do it, mate. Tried it with the on-topic questions and you wandered off into your wee conspiracy bubble.

[AWAITS PREDICTABLE "THE IRONY" POST]

Lazy dodge it is, then.
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Re: PES 2018 NEWS, DISCUSSION, SCREENS AND VIDEO (Part 13)

Postby The PES Casual » Fri Mar 02, 2018 6:37 pm

G2Bam wrote:
The problem with this approach is I/we need give Konami our money to find out they bullshitted us all again, and by then its too late as they will have our money, and we will have their coffee cup coaster.

Demo is no use as that doesn't mean a thing when the retail version of the game is totally adjusted and a world away from the demo and other beta test versions we all had a go at prior to buying the final game.

Once, or rather 10 times bitten, 11 times shy. No way is PES 19 going to be a purchase on the day for most on here, its been short of a 'must buy' on day one for many years now in fact, that trend will continue no doubt until EA wipes PES out completely and then its Hobson's choice for footy game players.


No, sorry to be blunt but the problem is you here in the situation you are talking about.

You are making the decision to buy the game on release day. You are admitting to being easily impressionable and that you have a desire to have the latest new thing.

You have plenty avenues that can be explored ahead of a purchase, but you are not affording yourself the opportunity to use them. You aren't holding yourself and your purchasing habits to account. Nobody likes hearing that (even I) but that is the fact here. It is actually easier to not spend money on PES at all than ever, and it ain't got anything to with quality of the product.

You say "no way is PES19 going to be a purchase on the day for most on here" I'll hold you to that and it isn't on account of a belief in the product but that you are not alone in being able to be easily influenced or swayed, either by advertising promotion or what others are doing around you. We're all guilty of that in life. Anyone who suggests differently is lying. Like I said, I'll hold you to those words there. Big claims being made there and who knows, you might prove to be right. I personally would not bet on that.

You can actually play this game, or a version of it, for £0.00. Just one way in which you can choose not to be ripped-off or utilise some buyer discretion. Current model sees that released a couple of months after the retail game, you could use that time to assess things before trying it for yourself for, and I say again, £0.00. Okay, so it is a bit restricted, but you would have two months worth of discussion regards other modes to consider, but then have that access to see if the base gameplay is for you or not for the princely sum of... you guessed it, £0.00. This was something I said could be looked at and changed, regards how it is released but folk said they don't want that. Fair enough, but I can't think of a better way to compromise and gain feedback than give me something for free initially. I'd spend a fair amount of time feeding back on something that was offered up for my consideration for free. The sheer volume of feedback would increase dramatically, especially if they shifted a free version to a release way ahead of it's retail release and also that of other titles. If the feedback was that "GAMEPLAY AWESOME. MYCLUB AWESOME" by that higher volume player base, then at the very least they would something regards feedback. Yeah, you and others might not like that, but you want Konami to have all the money, right? That requires an additional revenue stream in this day and age. FIFA's FUT is not some gift to customers, it's a revenue stream, so even the biggest of developers and publishers rely on it to some degree. Just a fact. They want the product to maintain itself, and what better than to create a billion dollar industry out of the game itself?

Extends to everyone that last part. This is the reality. This is the fact. If you want a game that is licensed up to the eyeballs and has high production values, amazing modes and alike, then that needs money. If you don't want them to explore ways of making that money, and instead just want them to work really hard and just see what happens, in this day and age, you are asking for way too much; you aren't thinking logically or in real-world terms, especially when considering an annual franchise. Decisions to be made then.

You'll get your hobson's choice if you deny reality. Deny the existence of capitalism. It is that simple. It hasn't happened precisely because there is a market, and it isn't just a marketplace for products to be sold. That marketplace offers ideas and exchange too.

To use a drinks analogy, FIFA is Coca-Cola, and PES is Irn Bru. One utterly dominates the other in sales, but the one with the least sales, and way less a reach, has its customers and can operate at a tidy profit in the same marketplace. So, you might argue that Konami should just ditch myClub and cater for it's own in the market, no? Yeah, but who says all its own think the same, or play the game for the same reasons? Do you want them to speculate then? What if that proves terminal? Well, that is capitalism, for better and worse, but what is also capitalism is trying to identify where your market is, to try grow that and operate within the bigger marketplace with decent health, and do that in as risk-averse a fashion as possible. Betting the farm on what could be, and I believe is, that minority that is ML/Career Mode players isn't the way to go. Do you think FIFA would exist happily (in terms of both stakeholders and customers happiness) without FUT now? No chance. Not happening. They would never speculate like that, and that franchise is a goliath in gaming in general. They'll be thinking of other ways to get even more money, not less, if anything. Nope, no way would EA pull the plug on FUT. No way Konami pull the plug on myClub, even if they wanted to make the best ML ever, and I think they do; they have to if those on here who say FIFA sells because of an amazing career mode are correct. It just isn't going to happen, pulling the plug on myClub, for business reasons and football culture reasons.
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