Running Styles.

Running Styles.

Postby ShaneJoshua80 » Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:26 pm

PES in the PS2 era prided itself on the fact that players were idividual. Henry felt like Henry, Giggs felt like Giggs and Ronaldo felt like Ronaldo. When making the jump to the next gen era this seemed to be neglected and what we ended up with was this.



So we had a generic dribbling/running style for every single player and bar speed differences every player moved the same.

What PES needs to do is improve on the PES 5-6 edit player modes and have 10-15 running styles available or maybe more if they can fit it on the dic and the could use examples of the following.

Thierry Henry


Henry has that kind of leggy bounding style with his arms pumping and then coming out to stabilisie him when he slows before pumping again.

Robert Pires

Pires running style/dribbling his feet seem to move very quickly his arms remain fairly low

Giggs



Giggs' running style is almostlike he is gliding all the time with the arms out guiding him to allow the quick change of direction.


Khanchelskis


Kahnchelskis almost tiptoes with his arms raised slightly.


Lampard

Lampards style is more of a powerful style as he does notdribble as much as a Winger.

Ronaldo(El Phenomanon)

His is pure powerarms pumping legs pumping hard.

Basically what PES should be looking to do for 2010 or 2011 is having a few well known running styles such as C.Ronald, Messi(which they already have), Torres(hopefully the already have), Henry etc but then they should add a few more based on variations so maybe 3 or 4 powerful looking running styles, 3 or 4 winger/forward running styles(ala Henry, C Ronaldo) as Henry does not run like a conventional forward and neither does Ronaldo. Some other variations as well like a Zidnae type style quick and stealthly or Maradonna type style powerful and agile.
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Re: Running Styles.

Postby ShaneJoshua80 » Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:57 pm

My computer shut down so I'm not too sure why it got posted twice. SORRY :mrgreen:
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Re: Running Styles.

Postby pipothestar » Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:40 am

lol . i love the baywatch theme song in the first video loll :D , but to be fair Ronaldo doesnt run like u show in the video anymore , that was over 12 years ago , but hum i think it might be too late for Konami to change running styles if they didnt do it already....
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Re: Running Styles.

Postby estebanrey » Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:29 pm

In terms of running animations, I don't see why Konami don't make the fully editable so you can recreate your favourite players perfectly. What I mean is you could have sliders for...

Stride length
Leg speed
Max knee angle bend
Max elbow angle bend
neck position
body angle at full speed
hand style (fist, open palms etc)
head movement whilst running is you could have sliders for...
FIFA Soccer by EA Sports, a game where you can take on an entire team with Titus Bramble providing one is proficient enough with the “trick stick”. How realistic...
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Re: Running Styles.

Postby pesdg97 » Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:05 pm

the baywatch is funny

how hard is for konami to realize the running looks stiff and robotic
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Re: Running Styles.

Postby ELviS » Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:02 pm

The Bay-watch animation must be completely removed.... In the build which was in Gamescom the players were moving realy stupid, the party which were moving are the knees everything else looks stif and lame... i just cant think of a human been which runs with only 1 moving part of its body!!!
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Re: Running Styles.

Postby Amateur » Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:12 am

Konami should divide everything that haves to do with Player Movements.

* 5 types of Lower Body Movements
* 5 types of Upper Body Movements
* 5 style of Arm Movements

That would give us a potential of 125 variations -plus- it would give us better options for creating players. For example, when creating Classic Players, say Pele or Maradona... if we had that type of in-depth editing, we could create spot on versions of almost any player.
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Re: Running Styles.

Postby watu » Sat Aug 22, 2009 4:22 am

ELviS wrote:The Bay-watch animation must be completely removed.... In the build which was in Gamescom the players were moving realy stupid, the party which were moving are the knees everything else looks stif and lame... i just cant think of a human been which runs with only 1 moving part of its body!!!


You know I think it's really hard to pin down how to correct the konami PES animations - and conversely what exactly it is that's 'wrong' with them, but you're on to something here- what you said about the knees being stiff is a great description of what's wrong. The players never seem to fully straighten their legs......
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Re: Running Styles.

Postby ELviS » Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:21 pm

The running animations in PES 08/09 and now 10 are stiff and unreal. The human been evolved to this level because of the skill to run. To run you doesn't use like 2 parts of the body like in the PES animations there are many joints, bones, muscles and so on that makes us run... but nothing will happen if you aren't synchronized. As far as i get the picture the problem in the animations is this synchronization and the way the joints move. In one of the animations the player upper body is completely unconnected with the lower part there is no spine movement whatsoever. The lower part of the body is really low it looks like they are crouching and the only part that moves from the legs are the knees. The legs must be more stretched, the upper body must be little bit bended forward, the arms must be really well synchronized with the legs.

In this video you can see how bended the body must be when sprinting.
Very good running animation again from EA :( for the game Madden 2010 you can see how well the moves are synchronized.
Thats my point of view maybe i am wrong or maybe i am right, but the thing which is certain is that the running animations aren't good, maybe they need slight change but the truth is that fifa 2010 running animations are better and they feel more realistic. In the animation it looks like that the whole body is doing the run as it should be in real.
Just look at 0:48 when all players are going in attack and Messi also, the animation pretty much shows how a run must look like, i dont want PES to copy it or smth like that, i just know that they can do much more with them then the level now.
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Re: Running Styles.

Postby Stein67 » Sun Aug 23, 2009 10:38 pm

Some good idea's in here that I fully agree with. The current video's of Evo still have that rigid, ridiculous animation set to them. A much more realistic set of animations will hopefully be incorporated for the final game. As well as that though it would be nice to be able to edit the running animation, considering it can vary quite a bit from player to player. Some of the idea's above would be great if implemented, along with, a complete animation overhaul from 09.

Rumours seem to be pointing towards a definite improvement for the retail release of Evo 10, and it would be great if that were the case.
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Re: Running Styles.

Postby watu » Mon Aug 24, 2009 3:06 am

ELviS wrote: Very good running animation again from EA :( for the game Madden 2010 you can see how well the moves are synchronized.


Funny thing is if you wacth the other vid after this vid is finished playing you will see the old Madden running anims are better than current PES anims........

I hope Stein67 is right and we'll be pleasantly surprised on PES2010 release.......I really hope....
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Re: Running Styles.

Postby ELviS » Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:18 am

watu wrote:
ELviS wrote: Very good running animation again from EA :( for the game Madden 2010 you can see how well the moves are synchronized.


Funny thing is if you wacth the other vid after this vid is finished playing you will see the old Madden running anims are better than current PES anims........

I hope Stein67 is right and we'll be pleasantly surprised on PES2010 release.......I really hope....

Ass Suff said in one other post EA have a "library" of motion captures which helps them alot... but i dont think that the whole problems is because KONAMI doesn't have that much of experience in motion capturing as EA. I think it is doable to make a good animation with the proper knowledge of the human mechanics . Kinesiology also known as human kinetics, is the science of human movement. It is a discipline that focuses on Physical Activity. The human kinetics aren't easy to understand thats why it is easier to motion capture the movement rather then thoroughly studying them. :roll:
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Re: Running Styles.

Postby watu » Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:14 am

ELviS wrote:I think it is doable to make a good animation with the proper knowledge of the human mechanics . Kinesiology also known as human kinetics, is the science of human movement. It is a discipline that focuses on Physical Activity. The human kinetics aren't easy to understand thats why it is easier to motion capture the movement rather then thoroughly studying them. :roll:

Can't wait for the day when gfx engines and cpu are more advanced so not only do we have procedural collisions etc as they do know (euphoria etc), but also procedural body mechanics in regard to movement.....I don't think this is far off, if not done yet in some computer programmer lab.....
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Re: Running Styles.

Postby talz » Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:05 pm

i remember the dribbling animation that van persie had in pes 5 but it seems to have vanished in the new next gen games. it just doesnt make sense. they should be increasing the different styles of dribbling not just keeping it to one terrible way.
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Re: Running Styles.

Postby bigol » Sun Sep 06, 2009 11:11 am

Waiting stance is not like this!!!


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Re: Running Styles.

Postby talz » Sun Sep 06, 2009 12:34 pm

try players running backwards into space it would look more interesting
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Re: Running Styles.

Postby Nunalho » Mon Sep 07, 2009 4:17 am

You can add more feints and moves too 8-)
Fifa has lots of them.
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Re: Running Styles.

Postby ShaneJoshua80 » Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:40 pm

estebanrey wrote:In terms of running animations, I don't see why Konami don't make the fully editable so you can recreate your favourite players perfectly. What I mean is you could have sliders for...

Stride length
Leg speed
Max knee angle bend
Max elbow angle bend
neck position
body angle at full speed
hand style (fist, open palms etc)
head movement whilst running is you could have sliders for...


Something like this could be the way forward to erradicating the wierd running animations, one of the main things I've noticed is when a player is sprinting it's way too fast and needs to be taken down a notch. If Konami can find a way to make the running editable it gives us more choice when editing.
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